Phins Made Big Moves In The Trenches… Are They Winners?
Phins Made Big Moves In The Trenches… Are They Winners?
Miami’s interior O-line has had an upgrade of consistency and talent…
…But the Phins let go of their best D-Line player in Suh
Dolphins fans have said it over and over and over: Miami won’t be a consistently good team until they improve the trenches.
Sure the ‘skills’ on both sides of the ball get all the accolades, but the ‘glory boys’ can’t do jack unless the lines are doing their part. While the casual fan may not realize the full effect that the trenches have on the outcome of a game, the more savvy fan knows that winning at the LOS drastically increases your odds of winning games.
Now you can’t fault the Dolphins for a lack of trying to improve the lines on both sides of the ball over the years. The problem is, the Phins efforts have mostly ended in failures for one reason or the other.
Overpaying Suh
Drafting Martin
Pouncey’s injuries
Long’s injuries
Thomas, Turner, Grove, Carey, Jerry, Satele
Phillips?
Imagine if even half of these moves worked out?
If the Phins OL finally performs, then the ball will be in Tannehill’s court
This season the Dolphins are at it again. Among fans, the latest string of moves have received mixed reviews. But given how jaded (and rightly so) the fanbase is can you blame them? Phinsnews though feels good about where Miami is heading… but they still have many miles to cross.
The Dolphins signed former Pro Bowl Guard Josh Sitton, and not only is he an immediate upgrade at Guard, but he brings much-needed leadership to this position group. So far, Gase hasn’t had much luck with FA’s in Miami… But I think he wins on this one.
Sitton is still very effective at 31 (32 heading into the season). PFF has him as the 5th ranked Guard. He isn’t a mauler. Instead, he shields and holds his ground at the point of attack very well. His feet are still light and his hand fighting is excellent. Also, he’s a master at the art of holding… and uses it profusely. But as I said he’s a master and was only flagged for 2 holding penalties in 2017. Sitton was very rarely beat in 2017. The last play in the clip below was the only whiff in the 3 games of his review.
Sitton is still a Top 5 Left Guard
Sitton has missed some games over the last 2 seasons. There’s some chirping that he’s injury prone, but the injury that effectively ended his 2017 Season was just bad luck. It doesn’t appear that he’s breaking down. Although, he did miss the 2nd Half of a game midway through the season with a concussion. But he came back strong a week later and performed at a high level. So his vitality is still there.
Tannenbaum was prepared and pulled off a fine trade when Pouncey was released
In the initial review, the Phins seem to have made a nice swap at Center by releasing the often injured Mike Pouncey and acquiring Daniel Kilgore for an exchange of 7th RD picks with the 49ers. PFF graded Kilgore as the 18th best run blocking Center in 2017. Davis, Sitton, Kilgore will give the Dolphins a whole new look when attacking the A and B gaps. In a cursory study, it’s obvious that with Kilgore you are replacing point of attack power for Pouncey’ ability to work blocks at the second level. This will bring a higher level of consistency to the run game.
While Pouncey was a highly respected player in this organization, he was plagued with injuries over the years. And even though he played a full 16 games last year, he wasn’t as dominant as he used to be. While Phinsnews hopes the best for Pouncey, most pay per head bookie sites are giving slim odds that he plays a full season in 2018.
Kilgore has been a starter for 39 games at Center, so he’s a vet. His level of play recently earned him a new contract… only to end up replaced in FA. The only worry I have is, is why did the 49ers sign Center Weston Richburg and get rid of Kilgore? Was it simply a move to upgrade? Youth? Or was there something more?
Phinsnews is working on a thorough film study on Kilgore
Unlike Sitton, Kilgore is far more of an unknown quantity. As an example, Kilgore’s play drastically improved when Jimmy Garoppolo was under center. Was it more a product of finally having a competent offense or was it merely a blip on the radar? It’s hard to tell because he played in such a terrible offense for so long compared to his brief run in a competent one.
But our resident film junky M.J. had this to say based on a limited observation:
“After watching Kilgore’s game against the Jags late in the season, I was pleasantly surprised. Even though Kilgore was given some tough responsibilities against massive Marcell Dareus (331Lbs), he didn’t have a bad snap all game… some stalemates yes, but he was never beat. Even with Dareus in the 1 tech playside on Zone Stretch runs, Kilgore was able to provide at the very least adequate space for the runner to gain yards. He seems to handle power fairly well in both run and pass protection. This is a stark contrast to Pouncey and removes a major weakness from the Phins Offense. Ironic, Kilgore’s Zone stretch skills would have been perfectly suited for Jay Ajayi.”
Hate to beat a dead horse, but here’s a reminder of how Pouncey handled power with DT’s in the 0,1, or 2i tech:
Suh was just too damn expensive… but how does Gase replace his snaps?
The big surprise (sort of) was the parting of ways with Suh. Even though his departure leaves a big void to fill, the price tag attached to his attitude was just too much. Phinsnews likes the release of Suh–this was one of the more popular moves among the fanbase. Yes, he held his own even against two blockers (mostly), but the price was always prohibitive… and even more so now as Suh begins to decline.
At present, Miami will go into the 2018 Season with Phillips and Godchaux as the starter. Of course, this could change come draft day. While I’d prefer a Linebacker at #11, they must add a DT at some point in the Draft. Maybe they’ll hit later in the draft like they did with Godchaux? That, of course, wouldn’t be good odds.
With our luck, the Dolphins will draft a Defensive End at #11… No! I must stay positive: Linebacker, linebacker, linebacker.
Is it possible that the Phins brass made all the right moves?
Miami did make some nice moves at DE to mitigate the loss of Suh. While they’ve become less stout in the interior D-Line, the addition of stud pass rusher in Robert Quinn and the return of William Hayes, who was excellent against the run, is a bit more than a nice booby prize. With Charles Harris entering his second year, and Branch hopefully getting healthy the Dolphins pass rush on paper looks to be trending up.
So even with the Draft about a month away, it appears that Miami has done some good things, particularly in the trenches. This should go a long way towards making them a more balanced team… and that’s needed in the worst way. It will be interesting to see if these two units can finally become a strength for this team, instead of a disappointment? What are the rest of the Miami Dolphins News fans thoughts about what Miami has done to bulk up the trenches?
I know Gore is an aging player, but he has defied father time every year, and still has a productive year or two remaining. He could be the perfect combo w Drake and could really chew up the clock and yards behind this new O-Line. He makes sense along with a draftee.
didn’t watch him last year… need to. IF he is what he was in 2016… yeah. Gore is an all-time great RB. So underrated. Love him… for the right price, sure.
Admin, Looks like the Giants will take Bradley Chubb in the draft with the trade of JPP. That coupled with the QBs taken only slides a good player to 11.
We got ’em… Don’t think there’s a player in the building that doesn’t respect Gore. I like it on the cheap… bought this bottle of beer with Eddie from Iron Maiden on it… guess tonight I crack it open and watch some film on Gore. Good Times… There’s no doubt that locker room and culture will be front and center for a big bomb or big I told you so this season… I like it.
Win Win, for team/player. He can’t go wrong, mentoring Drake and a draftee. He is a first ballot hall of famer. 35 would scare me a bit usually, especially @ RB. Not in this case, seems like a idea situation for all.
I did get to watch him a few times last year. He was productive vs a 8 man box to boot. With a lead behind our new O-Line, he will be able to move the chains and eat the clock.
Unless you are a die hard Miami fan, from the outside looking in, you may see the Kilgore for Pouncey move as a down grade, strictly a financial move. For those familiar w Pouncey and his status the past few years, you probably see this as a win/win for Miami. Not only are you moving from the unknown (Pouncey’s health/availability) and replacing him with a more stable player (health wise), you are receiving financial relief as well. Kilgore will be available throughout the week, he will be available to practice on a daily basis, a very underestimated element for any O-Line. Kilgore comes with a good contract, and Miami can have Kilgore for 3 more years regardless if his play outperforms his contract. Kilgore himself signed a team friendly contract with the 49ers, “Kilgore had signed a three-year extension, but even he had termed it “team-friendly.” It has a maximum value of $11.7 million, with $4.8 million fully guaranteed”. Miami can cut bait after one year with very little consequences. Miami and Miami fans should see this as a WIN-WIN, and yes at the very least an lateral move with health and cost being a BIG upgrade for Miami.
“17 O-Line starters = Bushrod/Pouncey/Steen or Brendel; remind me again who was the starting LG on opening day, Kinda what I mean vs Sitton/Kilgore/Davis(Larsen), give me the later, thank you very much.
I liked Suh, I liked his presence, and he was a professional on and off the field; but, where has our defense ranked since he’s been here (not blaming him), the bottom half every year? I’ll take a (no choice) Godchaux/Phillips/Taylor/Wright w Hayes being able to spot duty at DT rotation with an added player via draft/FA. I don’t see a big drop off coming, I just don’t. Another reason I see LBers Smith or Edmunds taken at 11 if there.
Hope all is well Lemmus. Maybe you should outsource your yard work in the future, lol! I tend to be optimistic when it comes to most of Miami’s moves. Though I love their cuts/releases/signings, just how do you, MJ, Admin see this O-Line now? I only see it as an upgrade due to all variables involved and a real possibility to be able to control the line of scrimmage compared to last years O-Line.
Lemmus and I talked a few days ago, he was still pretty messed up. Still bedridden… but pulling through.
There’s no way but to say this a large upgrade… anything other would be ridiculous. Barring injuries Sitton is a Top 5 G at a position (LG) that has had bottom 10 for years in Miami. Sitton is still very good and even if you say Kilgore is avg and Pouncey above avg. (I’d rate them both as avg…maybe Kilgore has some upside) Then the combo of very good plus avg. is better than the former combo of piss poor and above avg. No matter how you slice it Miami has been upgraded. Then there’s the fact that Kilgore doesn’t have injury issues and can practice… that’s nice too. Now Davis will settle into RG and end up a good player. The three in the middle will stabilize the wings. Brendel seems like a young Kilgore and will be groomed. Larson is a nice swingman and back up. Eric Smith is raw but has loads of talent and Asiata may be the BU at Rg if he can drop 10-15 pounds. I haven’t given up on him. I also expect Miami to draft an interior linemen in the later rounds and bring back Young… damn straight we are much better.
We needed a back-up with experience, he has that, familiar w Gase. Thats all I have to say bout that!
I know Gore is an aging player, but he has defied father time every year, and still has a productive year or two remaining. He could be the perfect combo w Drake and could really chew up the clock and yards behind this new O-Line. He makes sense along with a draftee.
didn’t watch him last year… need to. IF he is what he was in 2016… yeah. Gore is an all-time great RB. So underrated. Love him… for the right price, sure.
Admin, Looks like the Giants will take Bradley Chubb in the draft with the trade of JPP. That coupled with the QBs taken only slides a good player to 11.
…maybe a QB or a tradeback. Chubb seems about right though.
We got ’em… Don’t think there’s a player in the building that doesn’t respect Gore. I like it on the cheap… bought this bottle of beer with Eddie from Iron Maiden on it… guess tonight I crack it open and watch some film on Gore. Good Times… There’s no doubt that locker room and culture will be front and center for a big bomb or big I told you so this season… I like it.
Win Win, for team/player. He can’t go wrong, mentoring Drake and a draftee. He is a first ballot hall of famer. 35 would scare me a bit usually, especially @ RB. Not in this case, seems like a idea situation for all.
I did get to watch him a few times last year. He was productive vs a 8 man box to boot. With a lead behind our new O-Line, he will be able to move the chains and eat the clock.
Unless you are a die hard Miami fan, from the outside looking in, you may see the Kilgore for Pouncey move as a down grade, strictly a financial move. For those familiar w Pouncey and his status the past few years, you probably see this as a win/win for Miami. Not only are you moving from the unknown (Pouncey’s health/availability) and replacing him with a more stable player (health wise), you are receiving financial relief as well. Kilgore will be available throughout the week, he will be available to practice on a daily basis, a very underestimated element for any O-Line. Kilgore comes with a good contract, and Miami can have Kilgore for 3 more years regardless if his play outperforms his contract. Kilgore himself signed a team friendly contract with the 49ers, “Kilgore had signed a three-year extension, but even he had termed it “team-friendly.” It has a maximum value of $11.7 million, with $4.8 million fully guaranteed”. Miami can cut bait after one year with very little consequences. Miami and Miami fans should see this as a WIN-WIN, and yes at the very least an lateral move with health and cost being a BIG upgrade for Miami.
“17 O-Line starters = Bushrod/Pouncey/Steen or Brendel; remind me again who was the starting LG on opening day, Kinda what I mean vs Sitton/Kilgore/Davis(Larsen), give me the later, thank you very much.
I liked Suh, I liked his presence, and he was a professional on and off the field; but, where has our defense ranked since he’s been here (not blaming him), the bottom half every year? I’ll take a (no choice) Godchaux/Phillips/Taylor/Wright w Hayes being able to spot duty at DT rotation with an added player via draft/FA. I don’t see a big drop off coming, I just don’t. Another reason I see LBers Smith or Edmunds taken at 11 if there.
Hope all is well Lemmus. Maybe you should outsource your yard work in the future, lol! I tend to be optimistic when it comes to most of Miami’s moves. Though I love their cuts/releases/signings, just how do you, MJ, Admin see this O-Line now? I only see it as an upgrade due to all variables involved and a real possibility to be able to control the line of scrimmage compared to last years O-Line.
Lemmus and I talked a few days ago, he was still pretty messed up. Still bedridden… but pulling through.
There’s no way but to say this a large upgrade… anything other would be ridiculous. Barring injuries Sitton is a Top 5 G at a position (LG) that has had bottom 10 for years in Miami. Sitton is still very good and even if you say Kilgore is avg and Pouncey above avg. (I’d rate them both as avg…maybe Kilgore has some upside) Then the combo of very good plus avg. is better than the former combo of piss poor and above avg. No matter how you slice it Miami has been upgraded. Then there’s the fact that Kilgore doesn’t have injury issues and can practice… that’s nice too. Now Davis will settle into RG and end up a good player. The three in the middle will stabilize the wings. Brendel seems like a young Kilgore and will be groomed. Larson is a nice swingman and back up. Eric Smith is raw but has loads of talent and Asiata may be the BU at Rg if he can drop 10-15 pounds. I haven’t given up on him. I also expect Miami to draft an interior linemen in the later rounds and bring back Young… damn straight we are much better.